The Brian Jonestown Massacre

Strung Out in Heaven (TVT)
An interview with Anton Newcombe
by Chris Adams

As far as I’m concerned, The Brian Jonestown Massacre are currently the best American rock group out there. Why? Let’s begin with the obvious: the name. Back in the early ’90s when the band was formed, most new groups had one-word/one-syllable names like Ride, Lush, Pulp, Chuck, Dust, Toast, Dirt, Skank, and Plug. This tedious fashion of monosyllabic monikers was getting extremely lazy-sounding and increasingly annoying, and a lot of the “shoegaze” music these groups produced sounded discouragingly faceless and interchangeable. Enter “Doctor” Anton Newcombe, who took a psychedelic psyringe to this pscene and injected it with a clever pun of a name that’s dark and sinister, that hints of religion and fanaticicm, excess and mystery; that’s laced with a taste of acid-madness, cults and Kool-Aid; that conjures up the spirit of the weirdest, most visionary, and deadest Rolling Stone. Plus, and most importantly, the name sounds cool. In the world of rock and roll, start off with a great band name and you’ve got about half the battle won, technical proficiency be damned (just ask the Velvet Underground, The Jesus and Mary Chain, or Joy Division). From its onset, the Brian Jonestown Massacre has been more of a process than a band, with a steadily revolving/evolving door of musicians orbiting around Newcombe’s unique vision. BJM records are spiked heavily with references to spirituality and mysticism, and Newcombe’s worldview seems to spin on twin axes, polar opposites: one of plaintive heartbreak and vicious vindictiveness, and another of life-affirming expressions of love and hope. The Brian Jonestown Massacre’s addictive suite of six albums draws musical influence from not only the Rolling Stones, but the aforementioned Velvets, The Byrds, Dylan, Love, and Syd Barrett. But the BJM aren’t just a pale pastiche – they make a point of tapping into the same spirit of experimentalism, existentialism, and expressionism that made those artists so revolutionary, so vital. Place this mission in a tour van that blazes chaotically across the country, putting on shows that are wildly inspired, raw, intense, and fuelled by inter-band breakdowns and on/off-stage violence, and you’ve got something that’s not only entertaining and exciting, but dangerous, unpredictable, and vital. Which is what rock and roll is supposed to be about, innit? Such was the case at the Middle East Cafe in Cambridge, where, at the start of what turned out to be a blistering set, Newcombe and Co. had a couple plastic cupfuls of beer tossed at them by an audience member. The band were obviously pissed off… a song was halted, and it looked like a few of the band members were ready to walk offstage. It seemed everything might end any second and we’d all be sent home early, but, after a few venomous words from Anton punctuated by a defiant guitar-hero leap at the beginning of the next song, things fell together, and the rest of the evening rocked gloriously. At the end of the set, Newcombe, Pamela (my photographer), and I piled into the band’s tour van to get the lowdown:

Who was the fella with the beer?
Oh, that’s the drummer from Spectacle. See, what happened was I was talking to our tour manager, and he fuckin’ came up and pushed me twice, as he was going by, to get me out of the way or something… I dunno, I had my back turned to him. He was like twenty feet away headed down to the backstage, and I was drinking an Irish coffee, so I just hucked it and it hit him right on his neck… it spilled all over him. From twenty feet away I pegged him! And he came over and called me a piece of shit and I was like, “what are you doing calling me a piece of shit?” and then he threw his drumcase at me, and while we were playing he threw two beers at me. I thought it was funny.

Well, it’ll cool ya off.
I’d just come to play a show, man, I didn’t come for any BS, ya know what I’m sayin’? I’m serious. I’d just come to play a good show for Boston. I hope it turned out. What did you think?

Of the show? I thought it was fantastic, blew me away… really. I’m not just saying that to get a good interview. I’d tell ya if I thought it was crap.
Yeah? Thanks.

One of my fave songs on the new LP is “Wasting Away” which is obviously about corporations selling prefabricated rock “culture” to the kids. So my questions are A.) how exactly are the kids being ripped off, and B.) what is the Brian Jonestown Massacre offering as a sort of antidote, or alternative to that?
Before, like in the 60’s and stuff, there was a phenomenon going on. Nobody knew what to expect because new things were popping up all the time. There wasn’t this whole “teenage curfew” thing, ya know? Like what happens when suburban teenagers have mobility and money? – that hadn’t been explored yet, that was the first time that had ever happened. But today, live music is associated with bullshit – there’re all these permits and stuff that you need in order to have concerts. So now, a lot of people don’t get to have the kind of fun (that they had back in the ’60s). Plus, rock and roll is now all business… it’s market research and demographics, so instead of people just putting out ideas, saying “hey, this’ll work,” or whatever, people are quizzing everybody. People don’t get to feel the full spectrum of human expression because it all comes down to demographics, ya know? People are going with stuff that’s gonna be the most popular, instead of what might be the best. I mean, if you’d done market research on the Velvet Underground, they would never have existed!

(At this point, the drummer from Spectacle emerges from the Middle East. Anton is distracted. “There’s that fuckin’ lame-ass drummer… sorry, I gotta pay attention… this guy just threw beers on me…” Newcombe yells out the van window, “You’re still a dickhead even if you did throw beers at me while I was playing! You’re a fucking dickhead! … OK, I’m done.”)

Are you guys doing the whole tour with Spectacle?
Ummm… yeah…

Aw, fuck him, man…
Yeah, fuck him… exactly. Throwing beers on me while I’m playing…

Let him go… anyway, I was saying…
(out window) I’M GONNA TAKE A CRAP IN MY HAND TOMORROW WHEN YOU GUYS ARE PLAYING AND THROW IT ON YOU AND SEE HOW YOU LIKE IT! I HOPE YOU’RE WEARING PLASTIC SUITS WHEN I THROW A BIG FUCKING SHIT ON YOU!

OK, I’m done. I just wanna worry him. I’m not really gonna do that. I mean, I’m trynna help Spectacle, that’s why I brought ’em on this tour, but if they’re gonna be dicks about it… Back to our thing… I’m sorry… I’m just, like, a mess… I like your magazine, though, it’s cool… I’m surprised there’s not like a hundred good rock mags like yours…

Yeah, there’s only about three. Jack Rabid’s Big Takeover is great.
I love that guy. He’s cool.

Anyway, one of the quotes that kind of interested me was “Ya gotta go back to get to the future” – I’m paraphrasing – and there’s obviously a retro vibe happening, at least sound-wise, with some of your stuff, like the first Love album, and some of the Velvets stuff…
Yeah, surprisingly though, we don’t get paid for being a retro band as much as some other bands. It’s just because we have so many influences. I mean, I don’t know any other way to go about doing what I do… it’s just the kinda music I love. This (music playing on the van stereo) is even more retro. This is an EP that we’re putting out in a little while.

Speaking of EP’s – Is “Spacegirl…” ever gonna be available again?
I’m gonna release it on CD pretty soon, on my own label, which is available through Bomp!

Brian Jonestown Massacre is Anton in the same way Aztec Camera was pretty much Roddy Frame, correct?
Pretty much… I’ve got free reign in my band… some bands are like that, you know?

How many members have you had over the past coupla years?
A LOT. A lot of people. I can’t help that, you know? It’s one of those situations where it’s not everybody’s idea of a good time to go fucking stay in a van all year long. I personally love it. I like travelling and I like the idea that I know cool people all over America, and I can’t see them any other way except by doing this. And it’s kind of exciting that I get to travel a lot and my music takes me there. It’s not that fucking tough to have to play 45 minutes or an hour. But, to go back to get to the future… I’m just trynna… keep folk music alive.

• (As Anton says this, a few of the guys from Spectacle approach the van. The drummer isn’t one of them, but these dudes look really pissed off. Something’s definitely gonna go down. I tentatively ask “Are we cool?…”)

(to Spectacle guy): WHAT??!?

(Spectacle guy) What’s wrong with you, man?

There’s fucking nothing wrong with me. Dude, there’s nothing wrong with me!

(Spectacle guy) Have you no shame at all?

Hey, listen…

(Spectacle guy) What kind of Doctor are you, anyway? Is that your benevolent grace that you scald people as they’re trynna hurry off stage?

I didn’t scald him! That coffee wasn’t hot.. That’s not what happened… Dude, you guys…

(Spectacle guy) …I’d love for you to put it in your own words, Mr. Doctor Anton Newcombe……

OK, check this out, I will…

(Spectacle guy) …Articulately, now, please, with all the prose and style of your deserved status…….

Awww… OK…

(Spectacle guy) …I’m ready. To me! Roll the tape, baby!

He’s already got it rolling… look, your drummer fucking pushed me twice, he fucking bumped into me…

(Spectacle guy) …No, ya know what? This is the fuckin’ deal. We totally give you props, every night…

You don’t have to give me fuckin’ nothing!

(At this point, a cop comes toward the van wanting to know what the ruckus is about. Spectacle guy says “We’re just having a conversation.” This cools the cop off. He tells them to keep it down, and he splits.)

(Spectacle guy) Fortunately, I’m a reasonable man. I understand reason and ration. I’m sensible. I’m going to lower my voice, in consideration of others around us. Look, we’re trynna come offstage… because everyone in the band is a great guy… everyone in the band is a total sweetheart… they’re amazing musicians, they’re great people, I respect every one of ’em, we give props to those guys every day of the tour… we get on the stage as fast as we can, and we get off the stage just as fast as we fucking can…

(At this point, Anton interjects, protesting that the drummer pushed him first. The Spectacle guy says that, due to the Irish Coffee-toss, the drummer was sent to the hospital – which would appear to be a lie, as we just saw the drummer outside moments ago. Then everything starts to escalate. Both guys start screaming at each other at the same time. “You’re full of fucking crap!”, “You’re way out of line!” “Bullshit, Bullshit, BULLSHIT!!!” and things of that nature are being spat back and forth with increasing intensity and volume. At any second someone’s gonna throw a punch, at the very least, and then all hell’s gonna break loose. Anton looks like he’s ready to reach out the window and rip the Spectacle guy’s face clean off his skull. I timidly interject “Ummm… how are we gonna solve this? I got an interview to do…” The Spectacle guy looks over and decides to just give up on the whole thing. Still fuming, he hisses at Anton “Stew in it… stew in your own juices, baby… I hope it’s a good stew, man… baste away, baby!!” and walks off, disgusted. Anton replies “Oh, that makes sense…” and rolls up the window.)

That’s bullshit. That’s wrong.

What’s up with that, man? (At this point, I’m laughing my ass off)
The drummer… Do you think he really went to the hospital? We just saw the guy, when I said I was gonna shit in my hand… (Now we’re both laughing) Whatever…. anyway…. what I was talking about before? I’m just trynna create the music that I wanna hear, and with folk music, ya gotta interact with it to keep it alive. Any kind of traditional art form, you can’t just cover “Blue Suede Shoes” and keep rockabilly alive. To really keep it alive, ya gotta interact with the medium. You gotta breathe life into it, ya gotta animate it. So I just take the rudiments of the classic instruments and the sound, the minimalism, and just write my own music.

I have nothing against simplicity. Otherwise, it can turn into prog-rock, and you become Yes. And the response to that, of course, is no. And at the other extreme…
…it becomes retro, where you’re just playing old Nuggets and Pebbles stuff.

The BJM have a sort of weird duality. You combine this whole love vibe, almost a hippie thing, with all these images of guns, stories of tour violence, “Keep Music Evil” and everything. I suppose this is best illustrated by the line in “In My Life” that goes “I’m gonna load my gun/In the name of love/and point it right at you.” So, uh, do you come in peace or, I suppose, with a “piece”?
All the music is love songs! I think we’re real. It’s like walking up to a hippie with a yin/yang shirt and he says (affects stoned San Fran drawl) “why are you so negative, man?” We’re the WHOLE THING. We’re not concerned with our careers so much that we’re trynna tailor it and hide all that stuff, all the bad side. We’re letting it all out there. That’s the way we are. But yeah, there is a definite duality.

Why the violent imagery, though? A gun is a gun is a gun…
I dunno… I just like guns and stuff. I don’t like what they do, but I like ’em as machines and shit.

Do you own one?
People give ’em to me, but I keep ’em far away from me cos weird shit like that (incident) happens. It’d be too tempting. So, the duality, the violent imagery… I dunno… I just think it’s funny. I wanna be like the Jesse James of rock and roll, ya know?

Without going so far as calling your group “The Outlaws,” God forbid. Your lyrics are loaded with mysticism and spiritual references. So, whyn’cha lay it on the line and tell me a little bit about God.
My personal belief about God? I believe God’s everywhere. I’m not really into religion… but I’m into spirituality, and I’m into mysticism. I love learning as much as possible about… y’know… God, but I don’t use my music too much as a platform in a real obvious way. My views aren’t orthodox, but I don’t sit around telling people what to believe and stuff. I try and turn a lot of my negative bullshit through my music into positive things. Like, I might be feeling bad, and then I write “Love” and get over it and people don’t know that I was feeling bad, and maybe they get enjoyment out of it. So I can take a bad situation and turn it into something good. I dunno… I just like to learn about stuff I’m interested in. A lot of Sufism, the Sufi poets, they write all love poems, love songs, basically, they’re into music, that’s they’re big thing, even though they carry swords… there’s that duality. They’re like “Love warriors of God” – that’s what I’m into.

The stickers on your latest album exhort us to “Get ready for the revolution, baby.” What’s the Revolution?
“Well, you know…” A revolution is one trip around a cycle. So get ready, it’s all coming back around again. We’ve come out of this period where everybody was cynical, and now people are just trynna do things, and as soon as those people recognize that other people are trynna do things, despite difficult circumstances and despite whatever else is going on, that’s when the phenomena happens – when everybody realizes that they’re just doing their own thing. It’s a suspension of disbelief. It’s like when you go to see a play, and you forget you’re at a play and you get caught up in the story. You forget that they’re actors. I think that’s what rock and roll needs, and the more you premeditate things, that becomes harder to do. You just gotta suck people into your little world, for a little bit, for the length of the record or whatever.

Who are your fave bands?
Currently, I like Belle and Sebastian and Elliott Smith. Old bands – I like all the ’60s stuff, like the Zombies, Hendrix, Small Faces, Donovan, Dylan, Velvets, and Love.

Is Arthur Lee (the singer/songwriter of Love) still in prison for waving a gun at his neighbor?
I heard he died. That’s what Greg Shaw from Bomp! Records told me, that Arthur died in the joint. He had Parkinson’s or something…

Is the Brian Jonestown Massacre gonna keep up the high output of recordings?
This EP’s gonna come out. And I wanna work orchestrally, but that’s gonna take some time. That’ll be the next TVT record, part of it. I just wanna make it atmospheric. You know where a group or artist just “drops the bomb?” That’s what I’m working towards. I’m not gonna put out another TVT album until that’s done. But I’m gonna continue to have my labels going, Tangible, which goes through Bomp!, and my new label, which is vinyl only 12″, and it’s called The Committee to Keep Music Evil.

Here’s some questions from your email newsgroup. What’s your fave Atari game?
Space Invaders, man. That was the first and the greatest. Space Invaders and Asteroids… and Tank Pong was kinda cool.

The Dandy Warhols: Are you a fan or not?
They’re kinda into themselves, but I do like ’em. I really like Peter Holstrom.

How does it feel to be a rock genius?
Awww, man… shit. I don’t think about that. I just like making music. I don’t think about it too much. People who talk to me like that make me nervous. I’m pretty shy. That’s why Joel’s the frontperson. I just kinda hang back and sing the songs.

What do you do when you’re not writing, recording, or touring?
I spend time with my girlfriend. And I’m getting ready to move to Portland, Oregon. I’ve been living in L.A…. can I give a shout out to my girlfriend?

Sure…
Hi Tara! Yeah, so I just try to live a real life, so I have stuff to write about that’s real. It’s surreal, driving from Days Inn Hotel to Days Inn Hotel, and spending so much time in bars. I don’t go to bars when I have time off, cos I spend all my time there, ya know?

How do you cure a broken heart?
I’ve spent a lotta time having one of those. You just keep on doing what you do, and try not to let it take over. Cos sometimes things just don’t work out, you know?

Oh fuck yeah… believe me, I know…
But you try not to obsess on it – that’s the best thing to do. Try not to be pissed at people for being the way they are, and not obsess on it, ya know. This old woman told me to write the person’s name on a piece of paper, and then take a rubber band and put that around an ice cube, and every time you think of that person’s name, just go “oh, it’s cool, man – I got her on ice.” It’s like some weird kinda voodoo. Either that, or you can take a lot of sleeping pills…

So, are you really the illegitimate son of Brian Jones?
That’s not true. People are just spreading rumors.

Scott Walker was supposedly there at Winnie the Pooh’s house when Brian took his final swim...
Really? At the party? I love Scott Walker. I like that song (sings) “I’m a 30th-Century Man.” I was gonna cover it – I’ve recorded it but I don’t wanna put it out. I’m not a cover band.

Catherine Wheel did it anyway, I think. Can you think of any songs by other artists you’d wish you’d written?
I love that song by Love, “Signed D.C..” That’s beautiful. It’s so lush. I dunno… there’s a lot of stuff, I’m sure. Maybe something by this Dutch band the Outsiders. They were really big… as big as the Beatles in Europe. But nobody knows about ’em now cos they’re from Holland and they had those funky accents. But there’s compilation records, there’s a double CD of outtakes, unreleased stuff and stuff from television shows, it’s so good. I think it might be on Sundazed.

Speaking of labels, I gotta tell you that the folks at TVT have been great. The nicest, most accommodating label people I ever dealt with.
I know… I’m really lucky. Capitol offered us twice as much money, but I turned it down. TVT’s way better. I’m so happy with them. I’ve got a good thing going.

Anything else you wanna say?

Yeah. If you write ‘l-o-v-e’ down on a page – write that down or type it up – I just hope that anybody who can read that will feel it one day. That’s all I care about. Anybody who reads it should try their hardest to feel it, and we’ll be OK.

Here ya go, Anton.
L O V E.
(www.thebrianjonestownmassacre.com)