Suicide Girls
An Interview with Sean “Spooky” Suhl
by Scott Hefflon
Punk… Rock… Porn… the web banner flashes. Another asks “You know that hot chick at the coffee shop? … Wanna see her naked?”
Suicide Girls (www.suicidegirls.com, for those who literally need it spelled out) has been taking off in recent months. Bands talk about the site, banners pop up on the cool sites ya go to so you know what’s going on, there was that thing on Nightline that made Ted Koppel look really old and close-minded (yeah, that’s good, Ted, proudly admit you’ve never heard of Ron Jeremy and then wonder why ABC is pulling yer show saying you have no relevance. News is about knowledge and information, remember?).
This is not your father’s lame-ass porn.
This is new porn. Alternative porn. Not strippers dressed up like Goth chicks (not that there’s anything wrong with strippers or Goth chicks, but there’s peanut butter and there’s jelly, and, while it’s a cool idea, Goober is gross). Real punk chicks. Real Goth chicks. Tattoos and titties. Backrubs and blowjobs. Pizza and beer.
Cool thing about Suicide Girls (which is becoming a nickname for sexy, freaky-looking chicks in general) is that it’s not an exploitive site. It’s sexy, sensual, and actually kinda cute. Cuddly. It’s a community thing. Try emailing a couple girls yer attracted to. See what happens. If yer an ass, they’ll ignore you or tell you to grow up, just like real girls do. But maybe, just maybe, they’ll think yer rad or cool or fly or bad-ass or pimpin’ funky fresh or whatever it takes to get laid these days.
Let’s talk about the misconception that you’re banging all the models…
People think I have the best job and must have the best sex life… If they knew the truth, they’d be sorely disappointed. It’s not a glamorous job… For the most part, it’s cutting stickers, it’s doing html work for the site or dealing with our host or the provider or deleting messages or helping people with their account… It’s a job, much like anything else is a job. I’ve certainly met a lot of Goth, punk, and emo girls by doing this job – and I’m certainly not complaining because I love my job – but it’s not all sex and parties and nudity. It’s an assload of work. People probably think the same thing about running a rock mag…
But let’s not kid ourselves, we love the work…
Yeah, I’m obsessive, a total workaholic. I don’t know what I’d do with my time if I wasn’t working. If I didn’t have something to obsess about, I’d go nuts.
Something about idle hands…
For most people, it’s idle hands, but my busy hands are the Devil’s playground… I’m trying to do the Devil’s work as best I can. (laughs)
Even though it’s in the FAQs, tell me how you started, what the initial impulse was, and what kind of training you had.
Missy (his Suicide partner) and I are both very tech-savvy and always have been. She’s more the photographer and not as well-versed in the back-end stuff, the programming and usability of the site, but I complement her in that way. From the beginning, if we were going to do a website, we were going to do one that was top-notch. Just really top of its class, one that treated the medium seriously and professionally. We looked at other adult and erotic sites, and while there were some sites that we liked, we thought that there weren’t really any sites that treated their visitors with respect, and delivered quality, reliable service. The same kind of things you expect from any other kind of company you chose to work with.
We didn’t want to make a dirty site, we wanted to make a naughty site. That was our credo since the beginning. We wanted to make a site that would have nudity, but one that the people who modeled for us would be proud to be on. We decided in the beginning that we were going to be a little softer, a little cuter, and we were going to give the girls their own voice. We gave the girls journals so they could present themselves and say why they were on the site, who they were and what they were into…
Things tend to get harder and more extreme the longer they go on so they’ll continue to have their edge and appeal. That’s the case with music and art and news coverage and pornography, pretty much everything. Pornography has been getting more and more hardcore, more and more extreme. Everyone’s always trying to one-up each other. So we decided to sidestep all that. Instead of one-upping, we decided to provide a more intimate experience, one where you can get to know the girls. You can read about who the girls are as people, what they do and what they’re into, and you can email them. These are not professional porn stars, these are girls you could see at a show or at a club or at a coffee shop. They’re real girls with real lives…
Which adds to the fantasy… That these hot girls are real and might actually be accessible…
Oh, please… These girls come to my house and complain about boy problems… “Why can’t I ever meet a nice boy?” I’m not saying if you come to the site, you could get a date with one of these girls, but they’re real girls, ya know?
On the tech side, what are some advantages of your site?
We created a publishing system so it’d be easy to update the site and we could constantly provide new content for our members. We built that in php, a programming language, and it allows us to update quickly and easily, whether it’s comments or picture sets or movies. It’s done with a web interface, so we don’t have to code on a daily basis.
From a front-end perspective, we were very concerned with presenting our site in a way that was very easy to use, easy to get around and know where you were, with pages that looked similar, with consistent navigation tools. There are no pop-ups, no traps, no up cells (blind links to pay sites), and there’s no guest area. That’s very different from most other adult sites. There’s no little preview area, and then when you join, you see the whole site. You can see our whole site before you join, you just can’t see any of the picture sets or movies. We want people to know what they were getting before they join.
You have a profile (age, stats, location, likes, etc.) and a photo for each girl, journal entries and sample thumbnails to represent each photo set…
But if you want to see those sets with nudity, you have to pay.
Which only makes sense…
Absolutely. While it’s not original, whenever people ask me if I’ve ever paid for sex, I always reply (cryptically) “You always pay for sex.”
Like strip clubs, you tip. Otherwise you’re one of “them,” one of the freeloading cheapskates everyone wishes would go away. Shit in life ain’t free. If you want something, peel off a few bucks simply out of respect. If not, stay the fuck home and watch scrambled porn, loser.
I know dancers from doing the site, and there are a lot of people who don’t tip dancers. And that’s awful, because that’s how they make their money. They don’t get paid much of anything to dance, they work for tips. [This shouldn’t be news to anyone. Tip the naked girls who are being nice to you, huh? Do hot, naked girls sit on your lap and ask if you’d like them to dance for you in the library, on the bus, or in the park? No. These are strippers and their providing a very valuable, much-appreciated service. So pay up or fuck off. -ed]
I’m a firm believer in tipping. I tip everyone and I tip well. People who do things for you and provide valuable services deserve tips. Any job that requires tipping, you should always tip those people, because that’s how they get paid.
Do you pay the models?
The girls we shoot, we pay every time we shoot them. A flat fee. And we’re raising that now, now that we’re making more money. If a girl sends us her photos, we pay by the picture set.
What about exclusivity and ownership?
We own them and they can’t be used anywhere else. Girls have asked to use photos we’ve done on their personal sites or on their user profile on AOL or for their portfolio to get more work, and, of course, that’s cool. We just don’t want the pictures to be used on other adult sites.
So you’re not going to tell me how much you pay models?
We don’t like to give away numbers… We feel it sets a bad precedent. We have so many people who write us everyday saying “Dude, I wanna do a site just like yours, how do you do it?” We’re like, “Figure it out, buddy… We had to.” We like to encourage people who have an artistic vision, but to all the people who want to do a site or work for our site to get pussy, they’re on their own.
What makes one a Suicide Girl?
We’re very finicky… We get 20 model applications a day. And at the end of the day, we put up one new girl a week.
Missy actually has more to do with picking the girls, but I know what she looks for: Girls she finds beautiful, after talking to them, she thinks they’re interesting and have something to contribute to the site, and finally, she has to have a distinct style outside the mainstream.
We always ask the girls why they want to be on the site, and if they’re doing it for the money, they’re doing it for the wrong reasons. At least wrong for us. Same thing if they’re doing it to piss off their fathers or boyfriends or whatever. But if they’re doing it because they want the attention, then we feel they’re doing it for the right reason. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with wanting attention. The girls want fans, they want someone to say they’re beautiful. They are beautiful and they deserve to have people tell them that they are. A lot of the girls do it to meet the other girls. They want to be a part of it. We all hang out together – kind of like a little club – and everyone emails everyone, and they go to shows together and stuff. It’s a fun club to be in. Especially if you’re the only boy.
You must get a ton of emails from guys who wanna come hang out…
My favorite is the guys who want to model for the site. They send me photos of their penis and they’re like “Dude, I’d love to fuck your girls on camera.” What do they really expect, that I’m going to email them back, “Ya know, we have 40 really gorgeous girls here, and they’ve been looking for someone to have sex with on camera. They’ve been desperate for it, but no one has wanted the job. We just want to know, do you want to do them one at a time, or all at once? Which is best for you?”
Really, take a look at the site… They’re no guys on the site. It’s Suicide Girls…
One of my real pet peeves is that people think that “the realm of porn” is some alternate universe. Porn is just an extension of “normal” reality. Just kinkier. You still don’t get shit for free. You can get your face slapped by “some porn slut” just as easily as “any other bitch.” If you’re respectful, people will talk to you, if you’re a jerk, you get booted.
And conversely, if you’re pretty good at meeting people and striking up conversations, chances are you’ll meet a lot of cool people through our site. Whether it’s the actual Suicide Girls or other members – and keep in mind, 65% of our members are women – that’s a lot of cool people talking and getting to know each other. We get countless emails saying that they met their boyfriend or girlfriend on our site. Lots of hook-ups, lots of friendships being made. And that, too, is very rare for a porn site.
Are there any other porn sites you feel an affiliation with?
Sure, there are a few we like… One of the most affable people we’ve met in this business is Scott, the guy who runs Raver Porn (www.raverporn.net). I think his site is fantastic. He has a lot of content, and he’s really helped us a lot when it comes to tips and advise on how to deal with stuff.
I think the main reason we don’t talk about or trade with other adult sites is that we see ourselves as more of a lifestyle site. It has to do with Goth and punk culture, and we’re more interested in talking about and trading with sites and services that deal with the same audience. It’s much more fun and more conducive to getting new members for us to do a promotion with the Reverend Horton Heat than, like, Teen Ass or something that’s not geared toward our community. If there were other punk or Goth porn sites that presented their models in a positive light, I think we’d be interested in working with them. The main reason we like trading with Scott is that he works with raver culture and does porn, just like we’re part of the Goth and punk community and do porn. Scott’s also a good, ethical guy.
We like doing stuff with record companies. We like doing stuff with clothing companies. Someone from Hot Topic contacted us about a cross-promotion, but sadly, it didn’t work out because some of the higher-ups didn’t think we were a good promotional partner. (laughs)
Hot Topic should be all over your shit…
I think they deal with a lot of people under 18, and I respect that they don’t think we’re right for people under 18. I agree. But Retail Slut on Melrose in Hollywood, which obviously predates Hot Topic and is somewhat of a landmark, approached us and we’re working out some cross-promotional ideas.
They aren’t a national chain, are they?
No, but they sell a lot of stuff on their website (www.retailslut.com).
Are you friends with Blue Blood (www.blueblood.net, www.gothicsluts.com, www.barelyevil.com, www.spookylinks.com)?
Amelia G. and Forrest Black, yeah. We’ve talked with them. They’re very nice.
Them and Gothic Beauty (www.gothicbeauty.com) – which is really coming along – I always use their stuff as, like, the standard, or the point of reference…
Winona Ryder in Beetlejuice has always been the seminal Goth girl to me. I don’t know if she was ever really a part of that scene, but she’s a good representation of “that dark girl.” I love everything about Winona in Beetlejuice. The attitude, the clothes, everything about that character.
That was a real moment for you, huh?
Yeah, well, that’s when I discovered my sexuality, watching Winona Ryder in Beetlejuice. And now I do Suicide Girls.
Has there been a backlash from the Goth and punk community, thinking that you’re exploiting it?
Not really. Missy and I have always been attracted to this type of girl rather than blonde cheerleader types. It’s not like we looked at the Web from a business standpoint and said “There’s not enough Goth and punk nudity on the Web; that’s the niche market we should go after.” We believed that others thought the same thing we did, which is that these are the beautiful girls, and there just wasn’t really a community out there for them.
Another important factor in the lack of backlash I think is that people realize we’re authentic. We don’t find pretty normal girls and dress them up in Goth outfits. We don’t change anyone’s style. In fact, one of Missy’s strongest contentions is that the girls show up with their make-up, their clothes, the hair styles that they wear normally… There’s no dressing up in wigs (unless the girls do that anyway) or wearing our fishnets or our Docs… Girls come over in what they usually wear, and we’re very strong in our belief that we present the girls as they naturally are, they’re not playing some part.
It’s still selling a fantasy, it’s just selling a more tangible fantasy.
It’s still a fantasy, yeah. These girls do not hang out naked all the time in their regular lives. They do get dressed, they do go do things.
Do you take shit for the name Suicide Girls?
Yeah, we take a lot of crap for it. Especially since we launched the site September 14th, 2001. Three days after the suicide bombers, ya know? Not the world’s best timing, but we’d set the launch date long before.
Why did you choose the name Suicide Girls? Your site is LIFEstyle-oriented; couldn’t you have picked anything a little less dreary-sounding?
Yeah, it’s kind of a depressing name, but anyone who’s been to the site gets it, and anyone into the Goth and punk culture understands the use of the word…
I had the name Suicide Girls long before this site. One of the real motivations was that we wanted Suicide Girls to be a brand, a name for a lifestyle, not just one specific company or URL. Like Coke is synonymous with cola and Q-Tips are synonymous with cotton swabs, we wanted to give a name to “alternative girls,” whether they be Goth or punk or emo or raver or rockabilly or whatever. All of them, to us, are Suicide Girls.
Presumptuous as all hell, but a cool idea…
What, that I get to be the one to coin the phrase to describe all alternative girls? Gee, ya think? (laughs) But yeah, while it takes me forever to describe to someone what a Suicide Girl is, I guarantee you, once you’ve been on our site a few times, whenever you see a Gothy or punky girl walking down the street, you’ll say “That is so a Suicide Girl.” Not that it’s necessarily a girl from our site, just that she’s like the girls on our site.
You trademarked and copyrighted the term?
Oh yeah. Filled out the paperwork and paid the enormous amount of money and we now own the term Suicide Girls.
You’ve mentioned emo… I don’t really see a lot of emo girls on your site, and honestly, despite the fact that “all the kids love emo,” I only know of one real “emo/indie rock”-ish nudity site…
We have a couple girls on the site that are kind of emo-y… And there is, of course, one site that is dedicated to emo girls, Supercult (www.supercult.com), and there’s also Make Out Club (www.makeoutclub.com), the emo dating site… Emo culture must be pretty big in Boston [both sites are based here in Boston and you don’t have to read much of Lollipop to know how some of us feel about the majority of it]…
That’s why I’m so surprised there are as few porn sites run out of Boston as there are… I think Nakkid Nerds (www.nakkidnerds.com) is from here, too.
Yeah, we know Cloei. She’s great. Support your local scene, ya know? It’s not just a slogan for local bands, it applies here as well. We put money back into our scene whenever, wherever, and however we can.
You mentioned that you tailored Suicide Girls community after Pioneer Square in Portland, OR as well as Harvard Square in Boston, MA (Cambridge, actually).
I found love in Harvard Square, many years ago, with a little green-haired girl who sat in the pit.
Sounds like a song…
(laughs) Hopefully, wherever you are, there’s a place where “those kind of people” hang out. Even in smaller cities and towns, there’s a square, a coffee house, or some place for them to meet and hang out and be together. Our site is hopefully a virtual version of that place where people come together.
You should list all the cool places to hangout in each city. Not in an advertising “these are our sponsors” kind of way, but in a legitimate “here’s where to go” type thing.
We’re working on it right now, actually. While listing it may attract some gawkers and fakes, it’s pretty easy to peg who’s a part of your culture and who’s not.
I noticed a various shoots had girls straddling Macs (G3s, G4s, hard to tell), and they’re in the background as the girls update their journals. Do you have a deal with them, or do you just like Macs?
I don’t think Apple would consider us very good spokesmodels for their products. But we support them wholeheartedly. One of the main reasons we’re such fans of Apple computers is not that their OS is better or the computers are better, we think their philosophy is better. Since the beginning, they’ve dedicated themselves to the democratization of media. They started the desktop publishing revolution which allowed practically anyone to publish a magazine, which used to be something reserved for people with lots of money. And now with video, with programs like Final Cut, they make it so anyone with a decent digital camera and a decent Mac system can do some real cool video edits and make some really cool things happen.
Without a company like Apple, there’d be no Suicide Girls. Apple is devoted to bringing down the cost needed to create media, whether it’s video, CD-ROMs, webpages, desktop publishing, whatever. We couldn’t philosophically be more behind them…
On our side, Suicide Girls is devoted to giving voice and hosting photos for these girls who are not Playboy models, are not conventional-looking models, and can’t work for huge porn corporations. We launch their photo sets, we help them update their journals, we bring them an audience.
Have any models been accosted on the street because guys saw them on the site?
Sure, a few times. But they tell them to fuck off. For the most part, our girls can take care of themselves. And let’s face it, they’re beautiful girls, it happens…
And just cuz some jerk saw a girl naked on the site sure as shit doesn’t mean he’s gonna get some by being an asshole on the street.
Exactly. And I’ve had people say some real nasty things to me at bars, but I usually don’t get into explaining to them that it’s not what they think… We’re also pretty new, so it’s not like everyone knows who we are…
So you’ve been doing this for less than a year, huh? Damn, I’ve been here for nine freakin’ years…
Wow, I can’t wait to get to that point [oh, if he only knew]. I have distinct memories of sitting outside Taang! Records (Kids Will Have Their Say) in Harvard Square reading Lollipop. I’ve been a fan since I was in high school. I can’t tell you the number of hours I wasted reading your magazine.
(www.suicidegirls.com)
